do heaven and hell exist as places

well for the pass 4 year there lot of talk heaven and hell dont not exist as places people like the POPE JOHN PAUL say it years before he die and just 3 year ago STANLEY A FULHAM many of you may or may not know these 2 men now that will be the debate i belive they do still exist

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  • I believe there is a place called Hell/Hades/Sheol.  I think this place is at the core of the Earth, literally.  However, this place, guarded by dark sentinels, is really on another dimensional level.  This has been called the "shades" I think partially due to it being the manifestation of the powerful magical forces that are largely uncontrollable. In other words, this is simply the beginning/origin point of the evolution of a planetary sphere with it's inhabitants.  Only those who have no redemptive value, or cant be rejuvenated to be of use to the universe find themselves here. I'm speaking specifically of the hellworld for souls who can't be "forgiven/redeemed". There are also other prison worlds both more or less horrible.   I've heard reports by people who have obviously been there who describe an extremely hot, barren hole with a geography similar to the earth stretching for infinity.  But, as usual, how can you expect yourself to be able to suitably explain a region/area where souls are tormented?  You can',t quite simply.  I've noticed also that these "torments" seem to be control/power dramas these people have become stuck in and absolutely refuse help in any way (or can't be helped) to break free of these vicious cycles.  There's more, I've heard- that this somehow involved a judgement (very complicated) that could not be contradicted.  This "judgement" spoken of is in reality, at least I believe, to be an inability/unwillingness to work off wrong deeds.  The people who witnessed this place also spoke of this knowledge that once you were in there, you couldn't leave,  so possibly it is the mass accumulation of wrong/dark thoughts & deeds of people that simply hold you there so you cannot "get away". SImilar to being presented with your worst temptation, and never being able to indulge in it without mind-numbing pain.  These souls knew that what they were doing was foolhardy, such as murder or drug abuse, yet wouldn't accept the consequences as possibly incurring eternal death.  There really is a great trickery involved here by the dark to lure the weak & proud to a horrible end.  Also, false religion spawned by the evil forces you'll find contains a message of death & destruction; simply an endless cycle that has no redemptive/useful value.  Some say it is a judgement sentence, that when you arrive here it is already "too late".  There is no longer chance for the soul to work off so-called "bad karma".  I've heard many stories of people who have seen this place, also that there was an awareness that they were separated from everything (God if you will).  This separation is brought about by a breaking of partnership with the universe to help others learn & grow as a soul.  Whitley Strieber's midnight visitor described in his book "The Key" spoke of the world as being a "tremendous engine of the sacred"; I suppose "sacred" being either good or evil in nature.

    The Urantia book contains what I found as the clearest explanation of the concepts involved.  The fascination the dark holds is partially a fascination with the self.  Would you wish to inhabit a world where everyday is bright & sunny, nothing ever challenges or changes you and others, nothing upsets, everything is "pleasant" always.  After a while, I think you'd easily grow tired of this state.  And yet, this is our world to some degree, that is, without outside forces demanding change and finding new direction.  The heaven(s) the religionists speak of do also exist, in levels similar to Hades.  The enjoyment & joy of heaven can only be experienced by people who are participatory in the growth of the universe and not to it's downfall, in other words, heaven is in constant change & growth as well, like a cycle/spiral.  In the Book of Job it speaks of Satan coming before the throne of God - you'll notice he is only permitted to do so much, and this is according to God's "allowing" him to do this.  I believe that God has greater faith in the good than Satan (I believe Satan exists as an individual).  Why would he do any of this if they were not working in concert with each other?  Many have heard of the fact that there are in reality a multitude of universes and "Gods" - that the God of our world is an insane megalomaniac.  This seems to be true at least on the surface.  Possibly it is simply a manifestation of what mankind's thought forms have created- a sort of virtual entity/deity that encapsulates our distorted beliefs/ideas of what "God" would be like that we force ourselves to accept as a supreme deity, that unless an outside force intervened we would not be able to countermand. The new testament book of Matthew contains a reference to "outer darkness".  One experiencer of this hell - Mary K Baxter " in her book "A Divine Revelation of Hell", spoke of an angel whose assignment was to cast souls into a whirling dark mass of chaos she came to understand was this outer darkness.  She also described entryways to this place that were shaped like whirling dirty funnels that pulled people down into this chasm.  There are also places worse than these hellworlds visited by the many souls who have had the NDE's and wrote about them.  It would seem logical that these are on another dimension, the spirit world as it is called.  There doesn't seem to be very much written on the subject, at least I've never found very much.  

  • yes they exist. heaven is harmony, hell is disharmony.

  • I do not believe that there is a Heaven or a Hell; I believe that there are states of consciousness.

  • thank guys that a good debate
  • I believe it's you who create a heaven or hell for yourself depending on your way to attract negative or positive energy towards you. I don't think it's places that excist like described in the bible, I think it's just much more complicated than two pysical dimensions describing the "good" and "bad".

    A good question though :)

  • yes-heaven -the cities in the clouds-the gated communities exist in 4d spirit form  Yes the hell realms exist in 4d and 4d spirit form-I had a vivid vision of a guy I know who died and who was quite bad -he was having some type of thick liquid poured down his throat and his tounge had a small wooden cross pierced through his tongue-obviously some type of 'real' dream conditioning for bad deeds-one night I saw a guy walking down a sidewalk with no shirt, ragged shorts, sandals, ragged hair, and a rope as thick as ship docking rope wrapped around so that his right arm had to stay in an upright position-he was happy as could be roaming around

    • I beleive I've seen people from the 4d 'gated heavens'-only difference is thier youthfulness-they look late teens and calm no worries-try and find the book called -Noso Lar-there is also a film -it is based on the teachings of Alan Kardec and Spritism

      http://www.amazon.com/Nosso-Lar-A-Spiritual-Home/dp/0964990717

  • yep ... ;) you live in hell right now trying to reach the heaven within you ... ;)

  • Hell is just various places on earth now where there is still death and destruction caused by mankind and of course where the Illuminati had planned for us to go, you don't need to be dead to find hell. Don't believe anything the Pope or any of his lackey's says, it's mostly bollocks. As one mentioned, enjoy life.

  • You know, I think they do. They may not be exactly how the religions present them, but I think definitely there's a heaven and hell type place in other dimensions, and it doesn't really seem like a fixed place, but people will experience it based on their idea of it. I've seen too many near death experiences, of people who claim to go to a heaven or hell type place, it's all similar yet different for each person.

    I think what happens is, let's say you're a real negative, dark, angry person when you die...then, you'll be drawn to a level of the astral, the lower level if you will, where you'll manifest for yourself, a version of hell. There's been many people who've died and had hell type experiences, where they were attacked by demons, or were in a fire pit, or other things like that.

    And other people, who are more positive and good, they'll be drawn to their own version of heaven, where they'll meet Jesus, or an angel, they'll be at the pearly gates lol Or some even say they got to be right with God, who to them was a man sitting on a throne. People have experienced this.

    I know alot of people will say, oh there no heaven or hell, it's just religious propaganda. But that's just their belief. Too many people have had real experiences with this, and I take peoples experiences alot more seriously than peoples beliefs. I don't think that you get to be in the hell place forever, I think it's temporary...but...again, none of us really know, all we can do is go by the evidence we have. And the evidence suggests...yes, there is a reality to it.

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