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  • RL, I do not want to silence you. I want you to leave me out of your diatribe
  • So please be guided by two premises:

    1.) We can't observe a particle that is gazillions times smaller that anything visible, and often whizzing near the speed of light
    2.)We can't 'observe without observing' so we may know 'that the world doesn't exist etc' when we are not observing!! This leads to an oxymoron as 'observing without observing'

    So you realize that quantum mechanics, as often tought is absurd and cannot pissibly be correct!! We can't say 'the world is such and such WHEN WE ARE NOT OBSERVING IT. We can't claim to know how something is when we are not oobserving it! We are deceiving ourselves!!! Furthermore, we can't observe particles because they are too small. Therefore there is a whopper that goes alongside the common theory of 'quantum mechanics'!!
  • Quantum Observation

    So let me reframe my arguments to rid of what one may interpret as 'arrogance', 'disrespect' or 'insults'. (Hopping that no one who disagree will have an excuse to create a red herring😉)

    Lets consider 'double slit experiment'. When we don't know which slit a particle went through, then we 'we haven't observed the location of the particle'. But of course we know that it EITHER goes through one slit OR the other. Wait a minute, actually, we INFER. Since we 'don't know which slit,' er 'we haven't observed location', then the particle 'goes through the slits as waves' and we infer these wave by the pattern on the screen. So it is not that we haven't observed the particle. We observed it on the screen but we haven't observed ITS LOCATION THROUGH THE SLIT. When we try to observe this location, the wave 'collapses into a particle'. But this 'observation' is, of course nota conscious observation. It is a great misnomer!! You can't get inside the box to watch the slits and see a particle whizzing at 99.99999% speed of light! Thats impossible!! What happen is that the interference pattern disappears when we place something near one of the slit. It is unfortunate that physicist called it 'observation' just because observation is what they wete trying to do, not what nature was trying to do! Placing iron fillings around s magnet so you may 'see' the 'field lines' cannot be equated with 'observing the field line'. It is you who want to 'observe'. What is taking place out there is just attraction of iron particles. Same applies to what is taking pkace in the slits. It is Quantum decoherence, not 'observation'.

    So the common theory that says 'the conscious observation creats reality' is false, and cannot be arived at from any quantum experiment!! It arouse due to sloppy language if mathematical physicists. Thats all!
  • "Ara June 17, 2021 at 6:42pm
    ok Roaring, please except my apology to make you feel that way."

    Ok thanks, I think you have understood me.

    I didn't say anyone here is 'stupid'. I just said 'the claim that QM is 'tree-in-the-forest' theory is 'stupid', which is not the same thing as saying 'those who buy into it are stupid' as even smart pple can believe in stupid theories, like someone like thomas Aquinas beleiving that the loving God created the hell for you, before he created you. What more? Quantum founders themselves ofted described QM as 'stupid', 'dippy' or 'silly'. Tesla described such research as 'insane' etc.
  • "Qm may be one day be the way between 'religion' and 'science'."

    Ara,

    So you think QM is science. Good! From there we can move step by step and see that just what I said follows. My conclusion is that we cannot say consciousness creats the reality we observe, or even the reality of a quantum particle. My conclusion is 'observation' cannot possibly be 'conscious registration of a quantum particle'. Why? We begine by emphasizing that QM is SCIENCE, not RELIGION or 'SPIRITUALITY'.

    If QM is science, we justify its claims by OBSERVATION. If science makes claims of a quantum state before observation, then to 'proof' this, we must observe the quantum state 'without observing it'. So please explain to me how this can be done!!
  • ok Roaring, please except my apology to make you feel that way.
  • "Roaring that's funny i am not assassinating your character at all, you came across more 'frustrated' with ppl - including myself than humorous"

    What? I talked about buttocks bursting, male sheeps tossing you, a pipeline of beer to Bohr's home, etc! These are just jockes!! Do you think I realy meant that a pipeline taking beer to Bohr's home exits? By zeroing in on just sideway jokes and taking them seriously, as though I was actually insulting pple, it looks like character assassination!
  • if you take an image of a car and spin it infinitely - what happens to the car?
  • Roaring that's funny i am not assassinating your character at all, you came across more 'frustrated' with ppl - including myself than humorous. Between the two of us your are the scientist. I understand the concept, but to have a dissent conversation its not enough. However based on my spiritual practices, qm may be one day be the way between 'religion' and 'science'.
  • In summary, you guys are not interested in Quantum mechanics!! It is all just about me and my character! It is like students that are only busy exermining the teachers shoes, shirt, necktie, hairstyle etc and miss the whole lesson!!

    Stop making my character the topic of the wall and lets talk about quatum mechanics.

    The question is, what does it happenen during 'observation'? Is it 'quantum Decoherence'? Those are the questions I came here to discuss, not to display how 'modest' I am!!😉
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