Spiritual Forum

Replies

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  Stick February 1, 2014 at 8:42am

  

  555ChantDownBabylon555
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  TheOldestEternalOne January 27, 2014 at 11:14pm

  So what was / is your planned plan?
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  Aurelia January 27, 2014 at 6:46pm

  Yes, you are right of course...I just don't like this idea of hierarchy of angels and archangels unless this is just a human term to reflect the levels of vibrations that certain souls resonate at. A step on their journey back to source.
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    Stick > Aurelia January 28, 2014 at 4:29am

    ~I hear you Marie... when viewed through the fading veils of duality, words like: 'Masters or Hierarchy', can have a very negative connotation. Perhaps it is because of our limited perspective & temporary disconnect from 'Source' that we have forgotten that this Divine- Process we call Life, thrives due to a pristine Spiritual-Order. Going back to the eternal process of 'Learning', I see Ascended Masters & Archangels as (among other things) Sacred Teachers... committed to the task of Humanities return to Christ Consciousness. In that sense, 'The Second Coming' isn't about the return of one Christed Yogi, but rather our collective Ascension. Humanity faces the coming shift as biophysical extensions of the Gaian Mind... as One... or not at all. From a certain angle, the Spiritual-Hierarchy represents different levels of 'Experience', not the type of low grade 'one'-up-manship that has dominated the Earth-School since the ancient world (this is also a fading shadow of a paradigm that simply no longer serves). I attended a Waldorf School for twelve years & am a big proponent of Rudolf Steiner's works. He dedicated a huge part of his Life to decoding the Angelic Realms. I found this article by Matthew Davis Segall to contain some interesting Multidimensional food for thought. See if any of it resonates for you. ~InLight555

    

    Rudolf Steiner and the Angelic Hierarchies

    In a recently posted essay on Christian Ecosophy, I referred repeatedly to angels. Though they are as prevalent in today’s popular imagination as they ever were in the past, the secular intelligentsia tend to dismiss them as relics of our pre-scientific childhood. I think it is important that lines of communication be opened between secular materialists and esoteric spiritualists (for lack of a better term), and by mentioning angels I don’t mean to alienate those with an otherly enchanted worldview. However, the outright dismissal of the intelligence behind the powers that assist in the creation, maintenance, and renewal of our universe is an unjustified form of chronological snobbery. Modern cosmology prefers to speak the precise language of mathematics, but what is to prevent us from understanding the equations of physics as abstract representations of the otherwise supersensible activity of spiritual beings? What, in other words, is to prevent us from linking that which is intelligible in the universe to that which is itself intelligent?

    Modern science, influenced by Cartesian dualism, tends to restrict intelligence to the human soul alone, denying its operation in the surrounding cosmos, which is thought of as merely intelligible (because designed by a transcendent God; or, in secularized form of Cartesianism, because constructed according to transcendent Laws) and not itself intelligent.

    Angels are divine instruments of creation, the supersensible organs of God at play in and as the manifest world. Jewish traditions dating back to Philo and later elaborated in Kabbalah, and Neo-Platonic traditions dating back to Pseudo-Dionysius, suggest that angels are organized hierarchically according to a series of emanations. Building on this tradition, the 20th century philosopher and occultist Rudolf Steiner suggested that the angelic hierarchies consist of 3 levels with 3 beings each, and a final, incomplete level consisting of two beings. All of the levels ultimately come forth out of the unifying Trinity. Steiner says that one can begin to understand these beings by analogy to the human I’s relationship to the limbs of the body. When all goes well, the I is able to direct the body to carry out its will by accomplishing activity in the world. The I cannot work without the body, just as God cannot work without the hierarchies.

    The first hierarchy consists of the Seraphim/Spirits of Love, the Cherubim/Spirits of Harmony, and the Thrones/Spirits of Will. Steiner describes how space, time, and matter (originally a subtler form of light) are brought forth by these especially powerful beings (see Occult Science). The second hierarchy consists of the Dominions/Spirits of Wisdom, the Mights/Spirits of Movement, and the Powers/Spirits of Form. These beings awaken the material substance generated by the first hierarchy, allowing it to take on living form and organization. Yahweh and the Elohim, the central gods of the Old Testament, are said by Steiner to be Powers. Yahweh’s placement in the second hierarchy reminds me of Joseph Campbell’s remark that “the only thing wrong with Yahweh is that he thinks he’s God.” The third hierarchy consists of Archai/Spirits of Time, Archangels/Spirits of Fire, and Angels/Sons of Life. These are the celestial beings closest to the souls of earthly humanity. The Archai influence the character of whole historical ages (i.e., the Zeitgeist). The Archangels form the various folk-souls/nations that comprise the diverse human species (not the same as race, since people of different races can belong to the same folk-soul). Angels shepherd individual human lives, aiding our conscience in its quest toward things divine. The fourth and final level of the hierarchies is composed of the Spirit of Freedom and the Spirit of Love, both of which await their full realization by human beings on earth.

    This way of thinking about the universe and humanity requires stretching the imagination beyond its predominantly materialistic habits of thought. It would be inappropriate to simply take Steiner’s (and others’) declarations as true without having perceived their meaning for oneself. Christianity, for Steiner, is not a path rooted in belief, but in knowledge. His epistemology (see Intuitive Thinking as a Spiritual Path) emerged after a careful study of Goethe’s method of natural science and rests upon the cultivation of normally dormant organs of perception. These higher organs of perception, namely Imagination, Inspiration, and Intuition, allow the knower to participate in realities deeper than ordinary sensory perception of the surfaces of physical objects. No groundbreaking scientific discovery has been made without the assistance of such supersensible faculties. When we engage the world according to Steiner’s spiritual scientific method, we do so in search of divine messengers.

    http://footnotes2plato.com/2012/01/02/rudolf-steiner-and-the-angeli...

    OneLoveRevolution555

      
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  Stick January 27, 2014 at 9:51am

  ;-)
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  TheOldestEternalOne January 27, 2014 at 1:36am

  Isn't it true that sometimes, things go wrong and there isn't a "lesson" in it ... it's just that things go wrong?  There is not a "lesson" in absolutely all of everything.  What exactly do people think they're "learning" and why is nearly everything looked at as a "lesson"?  Don't people ever have incidents where life just happens, and there isn't anything to "learn"?  Isn't "learning from" nearly everything just a crippled compensation to justify losing and getting hurt, or causing somebody else a loss or detriment?  Why is it that I feel so annoyed, pestered and smothered with this "learning" from "lessons"?  I feel like a child as it is, why must I STAY as a child (who always needs to be "taught a lesson")?  Isn't there just something a little bit pathological in unrelenting lesson giving, lesson learning and lesson teaching?  Do people EVER graduate?  At all?  Ever? 
  
  "Everyone’s path is perfect for them, and for them alone."
  
  Nope. 
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    Aurelia > TheOldestEternalOne January 27, 2014 at 11:59am

    Remember that we all have free will and although we come here with a plan, it is our choice to deviate from it but whatever path we choose, there will be lessons to be learnt but no graduation as far as I am concerned as we already are perfect divine expressions of God. So this notion of "ascended masters" and "archangels" does bother me a lot. Has anyone got any views on this?
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    Luke Skywalker > TheOldestEternalOne January 27, 2014 at 5:45am

    A Man of Knowledge by Carlos Castaneda

    
    In our conversations, don Juan consistently used or referred to the phrase "man of knowledge", but never explained what he meant by it. I asked him about it.
    "A man of knowledge is one who has followed truthfully the hardships of learning," he said. "A man who has, without rushing or without faltering, gone as far as he can in unraveling the secrets of power and knowledge."
    "Can anyone be a man of knowledge?"
    "No, not anyone."
    "Then what must a man do to become a man of knowledge?"
    "He must challenge and defeat his four natural enemies.
    "Will he be a man of knowledge after defeating these four enemies?"
    "Yes. A man can call himself a man of knowledge only if he is capable of defeating all four of them."
    "Then, can anybody who defeats these enemies be a man of knowledge?'
    "Anybody who defeats them becomes a man of knowledge."
    "But are there any special requirements a man must fulfill before fighting with these enemies?"
    "No. Anyone can try to become a man of knowledge; very few men actually succeed, but that is only natural. The enemies a man encounters on the path of learning to become a man of knowledge are truly formidable: most men succumb to them."
    "What kind of enemies are they, don Juan?"
    He refused to talk about the enemies. He said it would be a long time before the subject would make any sense to me. I tried to keep the topic alive and asked him if he thought I could become a man of knowledge. He said no man could possibly tell that for sure. But I insisted on knowing if there were any clues he could use to determine whether or not I had a chance of becoming a man of knowledge. He said it would depend on my battle against the four enemies - whether I could defeat them or would be defeated by them-but it was impossible to foretell the outcome of that fight.
    I asked him if he could use witchcraft or divination to see the outcome of the battle. He flatly stated that the results of the struggle could not be foreseen by any means, because becoming a man of knowledge was a temporary thing. When I asked him to explain this point, he replied:
    "To be a man of knowledge has no permanence. One is never a man of knowledge, not really. Rather, one becomes a man of knowledge for a very brief instant, after defeating the four natural enemies."
    "You must tell me, don Juan, what kind of enemies they are."
    He did not answer. I insisted again. But he dropped the subject and started to talk about something else.

    As I was getting ready to leave, I decided to ask him once more about the enemies of a man of knowledge. I argued that I could not return for some time, and it would be a good idea to write down what he had to say and then think about it while I was away.
    He hesitated for a while, but then began to talk.
    "When a man starts to learn, he is never clear about his objectives. His purpose is faulty; his intent is vague.
    He hopes for rewards that will never materialize for he knows nothing of the hardships of learning.
    "He slowly begins to learn - bit by bit at first, then in big chunks. And his thoughts soon clash. What he learns is never what he pictured, or imagined, and so he begins to be afraid. Learning is never what one expects. Every step of learning is a new task, and the fear the man is experiencing begins to mount mercilessly, unyieldingly. His purpose becomes a battlefield.
    "And thus he has stumbled upon the first of his natural enemies: Fear! A terrible enemy treacherous, and difficult to overcome. It remains concealed at every turn of the way, prowling, waiting. And if the man, terrified in its presence, runs away, his enemy will have put an end to his quest."
    "What will happen to the man if he runs away in fear?"
    "Nothing happens to him except that he will never learn. He will never become a man of knowledge. He will perhaps be a bully, or a harmless, scared man; at any rate, he will be a defeated man. His first enemy will have put an end to his cravings."
    "And what can he do to overcome fear?"
    "The answer is very simple. He must not run away. He must defy his fear, and in spite of it he must take the next step in learning, and the next, and the next. He must be definitely afraid, and yet he must not stop. That is the rule! And a moment will come when his first enemy retreats. The man begins to feel sure of himself. His intent becomes stronger. Learning is no longer a terrifying task.
    "When this joyful moment comes, the man can say without hesitation that he has defeated his first natural enemy."
    "Does it happen at once, don Juan, or little by little?"
    "It happens little by little, and yet the fear is vanquished suddenly and fast."
    "But won't the man be afraid again if something new happens to him?"
    "No. Once a man has vanquished fear, he is free from it for the rest of his life because, instead of fear, he has acquired clarity - a clarity of mind which erases fear. By then a man knows his desires; he knows how to satisfy those desires. He can anticipate the new steps of learning, and a sharp clarity surrounds everything. The man feels that nothing is concealed.
    "And thus he has encountered his second enemy:
    Clarity! That clarity of mind, which is so hard to obtain, dispels fear, but also blinds.
    "It forces the man never to doubt himself. It gives him the assurance he can do anything he pleases, for he sees clearly into everything. And he is courageous because he is clear, and he stops at nothing because he is clear. But all that is a mistake; it is like something incomplete. If the man yields to this make-believe power, he has succumbed to his second enemy and will be patient when he should rush. And he will fumble with learning until he winds up incapable of learning anything more."
    "What becomes of a man who is defeated in that way, don Juan? Does he die as a result?"
    "No, he doesn't die. His second enemy has just stopped him cold from trying to become a man of knowledge; instead, the man may turn into a buoyant warrior, or a clown. Yet the clarity for which he had paid so dearly will never change to darkness and fear again. He will be clear as long as he lives, but he will no longer learn, or yearn for, anything."
    "But what does he have to do to avoid being defeated?"
    "He must do what he did with fear: he must defy his clarity and use it only to see, and wait patiently and measure carefully before taking new steps; he must think above all, that his clarity is almost a mistake. And a moment will come when he will understand that his clarity was only a point before his eyes. And thus he will have overcome his second enemy, and will arrive at a position where nothing can harm him any more. This will not be a mistake. It will not be only point before his eyes. It will be true power.
    "He will know at this point that the power he has been pursuing for so long is finally his. He can do with it whatever he pleases. His ally is at his command. His wish is the rule. He sees all that is around him. But he has also come across his third enemy. Power!
    "Power is the strongest of all enemies. And naturally the easiest thing to do is to give in; after all, the man is truly invincible. He commands; he begins by taking calculated risks, and ends in making rules, because he is a master.
    "A man at this stage hardly notices his third enemy closing in on him. And suddenly, without knowing, he will certainly have lost the battle. His enemy will have turned him into a cruel, capricious man."
    "Will he lose his power?"
    "No, he will never lose his clarity or his power."
    "What then will distinguish him from a man of knowledge?"
    "A man who is defeated by power dies without really knowing how to handle it. Power is only a burden upon his fate. Such a man has no command over himself, and cannot tell when or how to use his power."
    "Is the defeat by any of these enemies a final defeat?"
    "Of course it is final. Once one of these enemies over-powers a man there is nothing he can do."
    "Is it possible, for instance, that the man who is defeated by power may see his error and mend his ways?"
    "No. Once a man gives in he is through."
    "But what if he is temporarily blinded by power, and then refuses it?"
    "That means his battle is still on. That means he is still trying to become a man of knowledge. A man is defeated only when he no longer tries, and abandons himself."
    "But then, don Juan, it is possible that a man may abandon himself to fear for years, but finally conquer it."
    "No, that is not true. If he gives in to fear he will never conquer it, because he will shy away from learning and never try again. But if he tries to learn for years in the midst of his fear, he will eventually conquer it because he will never have really abandoned himself to it."
    "How can he defeat his third enemy, don Juan?"
    "He has to defy it, deliberately. He has to come to realize the power he has seemingly conquered is in reality never his. He must keep himself in line at all times, handling carefully and faithfully all that he has learned. If he can see that clarity and power, without his control over himself, are worse than mistakes, he will reach a point where everything is held in check. He will know then when and how to use his power. And thus he will have defeated his third enemy.
    "The man will be, by then, at the end of his journey of learning, and almost without warning he will come upon the last of his enemies: Old age! This enemy is the cruelest of all, the one he won't be able to defeat completely, but only fight away.
    "This is the time when a man has no more fears, no more impatient clarity of mind - a time when all his power is in check, but also the time when he has an unyielding desire to rest. If he gives in totally to his desire to lie down and forget, if he soothes himself in tiredness, he will have lost his last round, and his enemy will cut him down into a feeble old creature. His desire to retreat will overrule all his clarity, his power, and his knowledge.
    "But if the man sloughs off his tiredness, and lives his fate through, he can then be called a man of knowledge. If only for the brief moment when he succeeds in fighting off his last, invincible enemy. That moment of clarity, power, and knowledge is enough."

    (Carlos Castaneda, The Teachings of Don Juan)

    
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      Stick > Luke Skywalker January 27, 2014 at 9:49am

      ~Castaneda's works have played a powerful role on my path, it's always good to encounter his words... I have returned to his books more times than I can count. I have also worked closely with members of his inner circle & strongly feel the Toltec Teachings hold profound clues to unlocking the esoteric mysteries of the Gaian Matrix. ~InLight555   

      

      “A man goes to Knowledge as he goes to war, wide awake, with fear, with respect, and with absolute assurance.”...“The trick is in what one emphasizes. We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same.”...“For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path that may have heart, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length... and there I travel looking, looking breathlessly.” ~Juan Matus

      

      As Above, So Below

       
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    Stick > TheOldestEternalOne January 27, 2014 at 5:13am

    ~A thought provoking perspective, thanks for sharing. Though I disagree, I can certainly relate to what you're feeling. Nonetheless, from where I stand, there are always lessons in 'play' in this thing we call Life. When ALL is said & done, that is the true purpose & nature of the Gaian-Matrix... of the Earth-School. It is a Divine process each of us agreed to participate in & co-create by descending from our natural state: Unity-Consciousness, through the veils of duality. It goes without saying that many of the lessons we face are beyond challenging & seemingly unfair. It's all a matter of perspective, & while the 'roles' of 'Teacher & Student' are constantly interchangeable, We (Life) are constantly Learning more... Intellectually & Multidimensionally... Positive & Negative... the micro & macro are always in effect. Perhaps feeling "annoyed, pestered and smothered" is a crucial lesson you are moving through to help manifest a more meaningful path in your Life? The notion of 'graduating' is a Human construct designed to reinforce limitation... it is the journey that ultimately defines us, not the destination. There is always more to Learn. Even for so-called 'Enlightened' souls... it is their pleasure; their folly. From my perspective 'Learning' is a Divine gift... the Gateway for our Collective return to the realms from which we came. ~TemetNosce247 

    “You are an explorer, and you represent our species, and the greatest good you can do is to bring back a new idea, because our world is endangered by the absence of good ideas. Our world is in crisis because of the absence of Consciousness.”...“Nature loves courage. You make the commitment and nature will respond to that commitment by removing impossible obstacles. Dream the impossible dream and the world will not grind you under, it will lift you up. This is the trick. This is what all these teachers and philosophers who really counted, who really touched the alchemical gold, this is what they understood. This is the shamanic dance in the waterfall. This is how magic is done. By hurling yourself into the abyss and discovering its a feather bed.” ~Terence McKenna