Spiritual Forum

Replies

• 

  Bruce D. July 22, 2013 at 6:14pm

  You might feel differently if someone was on top of you smashing your head into the ground. The racism was on the part of the main stream media manipulating the 911 call to make it appear like racism. It was also racist on their part to try to label Zimmerman as white when he is of Latino heritage. They like to play up black versus white. It instills more hatred. Black on black crime and so forth with Latinos doesn't stir much interest.
• 

  FireSign July 21, 2013 at 8:38am

  This is my first time ever posting here. Overall, compared to a few I’ve read the last couple days, this has been the most civilized exchange of post on the matter that I've seen on the subject. I agree with many points and opinions. And I can personally appreciate the tone, and understanding. I admit I haven't been following a lot of post on other sights, but the some of the comments/responses to news articles were upsetting, and actually made me feel isolated from people for a couple of days. After a week of taking in all the stimuli, people’s opinions, gripes, fears, anger, frustration; as well as my own, I've come to realize that it's not the Zimmerman case itself that ignited the deepest part of my own emotions. It has been the feeling of an imposed oppression of thought, emotion, right of opinion, and having them all minimized and devalued as if there’s no valid reasoning, intelligent thought, or reality through life experiences behind them. It's like constantly being told what racism is or is not, by another race that hasn't lived a life experiencing it – as an African American experience, no matter how subtle, and underlined in many cases, blatant in other cases. I've come to realize that although I believe the case was bias, my greater frustrations have been other things. I’ve felt resentful toward those that actually have a habit of getting frustrated, and resentful at African Americans for speaking their mind and for having strong feelings, and being passionate in what they believe in, and passionate enough to voice it. So many people seem to want African Americans to simply turn it off, to not feel anything, or respond to anything, just shoot us down for having a human need for expression and desire for change. After some of the things I’ve read, I felt a little humiliated for a couple days, yet I really have nothing to be humiliated about. Over the last couple of days, my past (a lifetime) of experiences have come to surface; those personal experiences that through life experiences, and common sense, I can justifiably state as bias or having had underlined racism behind them. I has been so frustrating to bear witness to an enormous level of minimizing and devaluing the reality of those experiences; both my own, and others of my race as well. You just want people to acknowledge what you are feeling, and just say I understand; rather than fight and argue against your perceptions, attempt to define "your reality and content of experiences", and define how you should and should not see things. However, as I have stated elsewhere, “Rise Above” having the strength, will, and discipline to do just that during a lifetime despite the burdens; rather than be criticized for voicing them. But you know what also important to me is that people make the mistake thinking that my expressing myself is an attack on them personally, or that I’m blaming them personally.
  This is not an attempt to keep the subject going here. What is difficult about post text and email is that it’s easy to mistake tone sometimes, so i hope this has not been perceived as an angry post written in anger, because that’s not my intent. I just wanted to share my thoughts and perspective on the matter. I was actually surprised to this being discussed here. I have not had a chance yet, but I will look at the video links you have all posted. Sounds like good stuff.
  • 

    Bruce D. > FireSign July 24, 2013 at 9:07pm

    @ Firesigm says, "just shoot us down for having a human need for expression and desire for change".. That is not fair. You know as well as everyone else that black on black crime is what is overwhelmingly affecting black communities. The black community needs to take more responsibility for their children and those born out of wedlock. Blacks have too many leaders who are race hustlers and make a living off of conflict. When you have a guy like Bill Cosby and others who try to have an honest conversation about race he is attacked. Eric Holder said Americans are cowards because they will not have honest communication about race. The problem is that anyone who talks about it opening is automatically labeled as a racist so they just don't talk about it anymore. Society has a lot more problems than just race. We 'all' need to try harder to educate our children into being more responsible members of society by first taking responsibility for their own actions.
    • 

      FireSign > Bruce D. July 25, 2013 at 1:55am

      None of what you stated validates the racism and bias imposed on many African Americans. Statistics about any particular thing will never validate racist and bias treatment toward them. Secondly, I disagree with the notion that "anyone who talks about it openly is automatically labeled as a racist". That really depends on the content, not simply the act of talking about it. All one has to do is read a few post in responses to the many articles circulating online to see that out of the many people that are discussing race, it's in such a derogatory and attacking manner toward blacks that it's actually very obvious by their content and tone that many of them do have very racist and bias views indeed. They are exactly the character types that are getting labeled, and rightly so based on their content and tone. One must also consider how "racist" is defined by African Americans based on personal and unique experiences, and the obvious, vs. how non African Americans define it. Regardless, you'll find it may differ a bit between black individuals of different social groups, various demographics, family history, and obviously history in general that can't be argued. This is true of blacks within the "black communities", and blacks outside of "black communities". I personally define a community as a group of people within a specific demographic area and don't isolate "all blacks" to being in literal "black community". One can't isolate all blacks to one single category of character, lifestyles, views, that often differ in many ways. However, despite differences, there are some things all blacks will agree on as a collective of one race of individuals both inside, and those outside any particular demographic - that racism does exist, has always effected us in one way or another, and that it is indeed a factor in addition to other statistical data that people may used to deny racism as still being part of the problem. Just beause this is a reality I know is the truth, and people demand change, dosnt mean they are saying they have no responsibility for their own lives and future. They're just speaking the truth about racism not giving up responsibility. People can quote numbers in relation to African American statistics regarding many other subjects all they want; but again statistics about any particular thing will never validate racist and bias treatment toward blacks that in turn continues to be expressed by them. 
      • 

        Bruce D. > FireSign July 25, 2013 at 5:44am

        If you want truth first we need to recognize just how much racism many blacks have for whites. Do you think that goes unnoticed in publications and news programs. You are being disingeniousness to imply it only goes one way. You also need to start taking more responsibility for outcomes. Nothing is going to change in black communities as long as 72 % of black children are born out of wedlock. If you view yourself as a victim and ask others to view you as a victim it is likely your future will be that of a victim.

        "Part of the problem is us: Black America. Our leaders (with notable exceptions, like Pastor Corey Brooks and educator Tim King) have been silent too long and now we’re in a position where violence in our neighborhoods is worse than Afghanistan.

        Why are our children killing our children? What did we do wrong? What is our responsibility for the violence?"
        • 

          FireSign > Bruce D. July 25, 2013 at 1:55pm

          I have not at all implied that it only goes one way at all. It actually goes all ways. However, that's not something that could be, nor should be used to distract the simple point at hand. My expression simply represents it from a general black perspective, towards blacks. However, that dosn't at all mean my perspectives implies ignorance. My personal life is surrounded by wonderful Non-African American people that are not racist, and feel as I do, and very much support the same views. Not to mention the interracial marriges within the lives of relitives. Either way, your argument still dosn't validate my one basic point that nothing can validate racism and bias toward the African Americans - it's a simple moraI truth. People can continue to "add" other factors of life that indeed should be addressed, however, those issues can't terminate the simple truth about the "root" of the subject. My response to your attempt to distract the focus from that root, and onto me and my life instead, is that don't need to take any responsibility for outcomes for anyone other than myself, being the outcomes of my actions and taking responsibility throughout my life have resulted in having a multicultural life, being successfull, home owner, and running my own business for the last 20 years. I have no children, nor have I been married, so those are responsibilites I have no connection to. Responsibilities have been covered throughout my life - and dispite the existence of factors of the subjects at hand. Through a simple moral perspective, again, people can't validate racism towards blacks by distracting from it by continuing to add more content about other things, and implying they're the root cause of it, because they're not.
          • 

            Bruce D. > FireSign July 25, 2013 at 2:48pm

            Racism should not be validated towards blacks or blacks towards whites. If that is your original point we agree. My original objection was your inflammatory and unsubstantiated remark, "just shoot us down for having a human need for expression and desire for change". You are projecting a false narrative by posting that in relation to the Zimmerman case or to suggest that it is somehow prevalent in America. A statement like that promotes and inflames the seeds of racism and makes you part of the problem instead of being part of the solution. Also there is no proof Zimmerman is a racist despite the many who are trying to make it so.  Zimmerman took a black girl to his high school prom, has black relatives, and donated his time to tudor black children
            • 

              FireSign > Bruce D. July 25, 2013 at 5:32pm

              The truth lies in experience and knowing the experiences of others. Givin the context of the main issue at hand, unlike myself, those that are actually the true vines resulting from the seeds you're refering to, the statment "just shoot us down for having a human need for expression and desire for change" is actually a legitamate statment and expression in itself. To say that it's inflamitory is no diffrent than doing exactly what the statement implies. However it's good we've found an agreement despite our disagreements, even it's only one out of many. By the way in resonse to your statment about Zimmerman "not being racist, I don't recal accusing Zimmerman as racist, as I really don't think he is in the literal sense. However, what I have stated before in another post is "I don't think Zimmerman is racist, however I do belive his preceptions and actions were likely initiated through a racial bias. I belive there is a diffrence between the two." That is what I recal posting somewhere. 
              
              
              • 

                Bruce D. > FireSign July 26, 2013 at 12:29am

                If Zimmerman has donated his time to tudor young black kids it is only logical he likes black people and feels a sense of civic responsibility. Perhaps you should think along those lines seeing you do not have any kids of your own as part of a solution.

                You have freedom to say what you like but as far as your inflammatory remarks are concerned, in a civil society you have a responsibility to tell the truth and not try to mislead people. You can still choose to be irresponsible and many people do but those people should not claim to be victims of society when indeed they are being part of the problem. I also have the civic responsibility to understand the truth and make a statement about it.
                • 

                  FireSign > Bruce D. July 26, 2013 at 3:27am

                  Look, I've made my points. I stand by them. It's really your problem if they're hard to swallow being they're diffrent than yours. Also, I don't think I've tried to bring your life "personally" into the subject even though I've disagreed with you because that would only be a distraction from the root. Your attempts at re-directing the focus onto me and my life personally is really futile, obvious you're running low on fuel from an argument you insist on winning that really can't be; simply due a basic moral truth that cannt be argued without compromise or denile. On your part it's more of a countiuos "need to win" an argument by re-directing. That's not my problem.